Reno and flag codes

Having just moved to Reno, Nevada two days ago, I woke up today to find an email from my brother linking to this news story about a "Flag of Mexico Flown Illegally Over Reno Business," which linked to this part of the Federal flag code. The story has caught on nationally, and has since been reported by the Drudgereport and CNN. (Although CNN is more interested in the fact that a veteran was caught on video tearing down the flag with a large knife.)

My initial reaction to the headlines was that there was no way that Federal code legally compels private residences and businesses to display their flags in a particular way, especially since the First Amendment gives Americans the freedom to burn the flag if they so wish. It turns out that I was right: courts have ruled that the laws here are merely advisory:

Federal flag code is not intended to proscribe behavior but is fashioned as expression of prevalent custom and usage regarding display of American flag. Lapolla v. Dullaghan, 1970, 311 N.Y.S.2d 435, 63 Misc.2d 157.

Still, the damage has already been done, and there's no telling how many people now believe that their First Amendment rights don't include flying flags in the manner of their choosing. Indeed, when I dropped off my rental truck this morning, the clerk and I got in an argument over this story, with him insisting that it's illegal (he saw it on Anderson Cooper last night), and that I should leave the country if I believed otherwise.

I know through my sources that the local news agencies are now being contacted about their error in reporting the story -- I will keep you updated about any retractions.

Update: KRNV has posted the ACLU of Nevada's press release regarding their storey.

Later Update: It's beginning to get out there that disregarding the Federal flag code is not illegal. The Reno police say as much in this Reno-Gazette Journal article. So far as I know, neither KRNV nor the Drudgereport has retracted the original story.


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I see that you arrived none too soon. (Glad you made it.)

Lorelei | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:01pm

I wonder if personal use of a Mexican flag were illegal then wouldn't possession also be illegal (except for medicinal use)? Also, flying a POW-MIA black flag will get your ass three years in a POW camp.

mattbucher | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:14pm

Who initiated the conversation with the rental car guy?

Did he literally say you should leave the country?

Do you have a standard retort to such a suggestion?

RumorsDaily | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:46pm

He overhead me talking about it, so he joined in.

He did say that, but to be truthful it was hard to tell if he was talking about me, or the bar owner. He was using the word "you," but that can of course be generalized.

My response was that I love this country, and one of the things I love about it is the first amendment.

crazymonk | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:48pm

On a side note, it's not a crazy reaction for a non-legally inclined person to read the federal statute as an enforceable law. While a little bit of thinking on the matter will clearly indicate that you're right, most people don't really understand how judicial interpretation effects these things and certainly don't have the ability to actually look up legal precedents.

That being said, CNN is a big enough place that they should have called a lawyer. Perhaps Toobin, he seems to know what he's talking about.

RumorsDaily | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:49pm

You are right, it's not a crazy reaction. Still, they should be aware of their limitations in interpreting the law.

crazymonk | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:51pm

Look at that guy's beard! Someone should cut that off with a bowie knife!

RumorsDaily | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:01pm

Look at that guy's beard! Someone should cut that off with a bowie knife!

Good suggestion. Tell you what: go find the guy, pull out your "bowie knife", cut his beard off yourself and then let us all know how that worked out for you.

Go ahead. I'll wait.

Sailorcurt | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:42pm

Is Bowie knife not the correct term?

The quotation marks imply that it's not.

It certainly looked like the type of knife that I, in my head, refer to as a Bowie knife. I acknowledge, though, that I'm not sure whether I've really heard the term used in a coherent fashion since I was in middle school. My grasp on what a Bowie knife might actually look like is admittedly limited.

What's the proper term for the form of knife depicted in the video?

RumorsDaily | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:47pm

Looked like a standard Army field knife to me.

There is no single knife that you can point to and say "that's a bowie knife". Jim Bowie designed several different iterations of his famous knives and it didn't take long for knife makers of the day to start calling any big knife a "bowie" knife to take advantage of the (in)famous knife fighter's reputation.

Under common usage, many large bladed knives are incorrectly called "bowie knives" but that particular one only vaguely resembles any of Mr. Bowie's designs and the typical "bowie knife" had a much larger blade than modern combat knives.

Sailorcurt | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 2:15pm

Putting aside the bowie knife etymology story for a second (which i actually do find fascinating. no sarcasm intended) I remember noting when I drove into baja last year that under mexican law it is illegal to put an image of the flag of any nation other than mexico on your car, and the police can pull you over for it and give you a ticket. This seems like a good excuse for harassing out of towners, but I wonder if drivers of dark green cars are ever told they have to cover up their giant car-sized flag of Libya.

Jon May | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:43pm

I went to Mexico in an RV for Labor Day once. While there, we bought a giant Mexican flag and lashed it to the RV. From then on, anytime we passed a checkpoint or some guards they waved us through. It was awesome.

Back to the flag incident, it freaks me out how irrational people are getting on the illegal problem. People are celebrating this crazy knife wielding dude with the abe lincoln beard. This is not a solution people. You can't just "send them back to Mexico". We can't just build a fence. And it is crap like this that does not make me proud to be an American. And yes, i know all countries, especially Europe (which I am now a citizen of as well!), have these same problems.

Los Angeles Anthony | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 4:23pm

Oh, Jon, I miss having you around on a regular basis...

Regarding the flag regulations, isn't it technically "suggested" (quotes merely for emphasis) that people take down their American flags every night and NOT put them up on a rainy day? Maybe those rules are pretty old school (I recall a rotating "flag duty" in elementary school to take the flag down at the end of the day), but I think it would be better and more "respectful" if people adhered to those suggestions. It seems so hypocritical and lazy-American-like to get all hyped up about a Mexican flag over an American one, which to me seems a prime illustration of WHY this country is so cool, or at least was so cool.

And I bet a good amount of money there are Italian and/or Irish flags floating higher up on a pole outside of some other businesses somewhere in this country, but it hasn't made nat'l news.

Jessica | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 4:24pm

I consider myself a legally inclined layperson, and I would certainly interpret the flag code cmonk linked to as binding, in the absence of other information. The local TV people probably didn't know any better.

That said, it seems like you could be charged with vandalism for cutting down someone else's flag.

Anyway, flag laws and anti-Hispanic-immigrant fervor are both big red herrings designed to keep us from noticing that our country is drifting toward fascism and a growing gap between the classes.

Lorelei | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 5:10pm

A growing gap between classes could be drifting us towards hard core communism, too. Gotta watch out for the back door communists, you're never expecting them.

RumorsDaily | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 6:13pm

Oh, I wasn't trying to imply a causal relationship between the two. Though you could certainly argue that keeping poorer people ignorant is good for power-grabbers.

Lorelei | Wed, 10/03/2007 - 10:08pm

Drudge doesn't really "retract" things. He's mostly just posting links so I'm not even clear that he's obliged to do so (even morally). Most of the time he's not a news source per se, he's a news aggregator. I'm not sure aggregators have much in the way of journalistic-ethical obligations.

He did retract his Sidney Blumenthal wife-beating allegations back in the day, but that was one of the rare instances in which he was producing original content.

RumorsDaily | Thu, 10/04/2007 - 6:45am

If the federal flag code was binding by law, Dubya would have been charged years ago when he was photographed signing a flag, and every business which used a flag in its advertisments would be fined, because that's in it too.

Anonymous | Sun, 10/07/2007 - 7:13pm

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