We're doing a greatest good for the greatest number evaluation of which TV show is better?

I guess by that standard I'd say that Wonderfalls was the greatest TV show of all time. It had one flawless season and was promptly cancelled. There were no bad seasons to drag down its numbers.

How would you compare the greatest season of the Simpsons (take your pick) to the greatest season of Futurama (again, take your pick)?

I'd choose Season 4 of the Simpsons (minus the regretable clip show) versus Futurama's Production Season 3. I think the winner would be the Simpsons... tough call though. The Simpsons, in their good years, were more consistant than Futurama was in its good years. Futurama would vary dramatically in quality from episode to episode, even though some of the episodes were flat-out brilliant. The Simpsons stayed top-notch evenly.

Marco is correct that the Simpsons is terrible TERRIBLE these days. It is like watching a grandparent slowly die of alzheimers. You remember what they were and now they are former shells of themselves and it makes you so so sad. Now true, Futurama was great, but is it better than the Simpsons? I don't think it is a fair comparison. If they had the same amount of episodes, then you could do an average, but they don't so it needs to be weighted or something. The Simpsons has had far more A+ episodes than Futurama, just based on the fact that the Simpsons has had so many more seasons (it also has had far FAR FAR more terrible espisodes than futurama). That said, I prefer Futurama these days because it never got bad and it is rare that a show doesn't fall into disrepair. Only HBO-like shows can go out on top or shows that are canceled (like Arrested Development). I am looking forward to season 5 or 6 of Lost when it is a fucking trainwreck. And by the way, Emily's Reasons Why Not only showed once and it was amazing, so it was the best show in television history!

> We’re doing a greatest good for the greatest number evaluation of which TV show is better?

I think it's more like Marco has constructed a proof in which he gets to make up all the supporting facts. Not that I necessarily disagree.

Lorelei is less than seven feet tall. So is the fastest cheetah. Therefore, Lorelei is the fastest mammal on the planet.

i don't know the answer, but i pitted Simpsons Season 4 vs. Futurama Season 3, and i think i would have to side with Marco. Simpsons has pioneering cred, as well as sentimental value, but objectively, Futurama snoo-snoo's Simpsons up the arse.

Thog: Here stadium, where our women basketball teams play.
Kug: We no can dunk, but good fundamentals.
Ornik: That more fun to watch.

Thog: This our comedy club. Humour here funny in different way.
Ornik: It not reinforce stereotypes.
Kug: Comedy come from character, real situations. Not abstract craziness.

in completely unrelated news, way to get on boing boing, but why does your article start with the word "description:"?

Don't know, I didn't put it there. My guess is they copied it right out of the web form submission and copied that part by mistake.

1. i find marco's statement, "for those of you who know me... i was obsessed with the simpsons" suprisingly endearing in its inanity and naivete. like he's unique.

2. no one has been more critical of the simpsons than me over the last 8 years. the worst part is that there were episodes i hated -- hated in 1997, that i now watch in reruns with great nostalgia and sadness -- because things have gotten so much worse that those formerly "bad" ones are classics by comparison.

3. i haven't watched the damn show in 5 years. i haven't felt compelled to watch it weekly. keep in mind, when i was 13-15, my father, brother and i gathered around the TV for "male-bonding time," first on sundays, then on thursdays, then on sundays again. i mean, that's the only thing the 3 of us ever did together and enjoyed. for those of you who know me and my brother, you have to understand how crazy and fucked up that is.

4. marco, if you seriously think that the 4 seasons of futurama are collectively better than the golden age of the simpsons, then you are the retard i always feared you were. i love futurama, but the brilliance and humanity of the simpsons is damn-near unmatched in television history. there are episodes that make me cry every fucking time i see them. and i've seen them dozens of times. futurama, albeit great and consistently so, could never match that compelling humanity -- and to explain that, i have 2.5 words for you: "Gulp 'N Blow."

i mean, "James L. Brooks."

I never said that futurama was better than the golden age of the simpsons -- i only stated that it was better than all 16 seasons of the simpsons averaged out.

as for being unique, no, i never claimed that, but i taped every episode during those years and rewatched them endlessly. i was proud when my brother, a friend of his, and i solved the who shot mr. burns episode within 30 minutes after it aired. it was obsession that many people had, but some people became bigger simpson fans after i thought it started to go downhill, so i just wanted to point that out.

We solved that mystery all right. We also solved Myst in a few hours as well. Why? 'Cause we were massive dorks. I think Futurama has more emotional episodes than Simpsons. What was so great about Futurama is that the characters actually developed from episode to episode. In the Simpsons the characters basically never change.

anthony, that's ridiculous. are you honestly going to tell me that there is no change or growth in bart and lisa's relationship in the hockey episode -- or homer's heart surgery episode, when they're whispering to homer his own advice for each of them? how about "the way we was," arguably one of the top 5 episodes of all time? "lisa's wedding?" there's no growth of character when lisa realizes that she's proud of where she comes from? or in "bart sells his soul?" what about "and maggie makes three?"

i could go on and on and on. don't ever confuse the fact that the simpsons don't age with the idea that they never grow as characters.

as for the "solving" thing -- are you kidding? just because you realized he was pointing to "M" and "S" doesn't mean you "figured out" the mystery. it was unsolvable because there were clues we weren't privvy to (like the lollipop/gun under the seat). you just fell for one of the set-ups for a possible outcome.

ps i'm a bitch.

CrazyMonk/ Anthony, have you watched the audio commentaries on the Who Shot Mr. Burns episodes? They discuss how not a single person who entered their contest to guess "who shot mr. burns" was able to correctly guess who did and name the right clues. However, there was one person who posted online the correct answer with the correct reasoning, but by the time they got around to trying to give that guy a prize, they his email was no longer working (I think they said it was a college address). It wasn't, by any chance, one of you who posted online the correct reasoning, was it?

It may've been. I haven't watched the commentary on that episode yet.

What I do remember is that not only did we find all the evidence that vindicated all the other suspects, we also found strong evidence against maggie. The one that sealed it, if I recall (aside from the M & S, "candy from a baby," etc.), was the scene where Mr. Burns challenges the entire town to do something about his crazy plan. The camera quickly pans across the whole town. When we viewed that scene frame by frame, every citizen in springfield lowers their gaze, except maggie.

i believe i took responsibility for that clue at the time. Or at the very least, got it independently of y'all.

also i remember disgutedly not entering the contest because it wasn't a simple "get it right and you win the contest" type of contest. rather, you had to have your name randomly drawn first and then you would have an opportunity to say who did it...or something stupid like that so we figured "eh, it's not worth it".

you weren't there when we figured it out, jm, so you either got it independently, or you're confusing causation.

while i was peeing at work, i realized i wanted to give credit to futurama for sophisticated heart-tuggers like "time keeps on slipping," and the one where bender meets God. good, high-quality episodes. but nothing compared with the simpsons greatest moments.

It's true. We figured it all out within the half hour. Our theory was that Mr. Burn's tried to steal candy from Maggie when she was left in the car (we noticed that she was holding a lolipop in that scene), that his gun fell out in the struggle, and that is how we are shot. Now of course the in the show they imply that Maggie did it on purpose, but we got it right. If you recollect Marco, we even went on an AOL message board and discussed it with people and told people the how and why of the whole thing. But like jon I was disgusted that the contest had nothing to do with getting it right. It was a frickin' drawing. Boo.

As for jgb getting his panties in a bunch about the Simpsons, yes the Simpsons had some great deep episodes. Yes, there is growth of character within the show, but as for growth from show to show, that barely exists. The next episode everything is reset (in fact, they even joke about taht in an episode). The only thing that has ever stuck is that Lisa is a vegitarian, but besides that, the characters interactions change to suit whatever is necessary for the plot.

Futurama had story arcs for each character. Arcs that they have planned and formed for years and years. They knew Leela was a mutant from day one. They have built Fry's love of her from season to season. The characters have a history, and when something happens to change them, it sticks.

Again, during its golden age, the Simpsons was amazing. The best show ever. If it had stopped after season 9 we would talk about like we talk about Jesus. It didn't. The show sucks now. What was so great about the Simpsons was that no only was the comedy good, but the story they were telling each episode was interesting and rich. Now the plot is a cloths line to hang jokes on. It is a means of telling jokes, which automatically makes it less funny. Basically, it is Family Guy, except less funny. Futurama never got to that point. By the time they ended, they hadn't run out of good story to tell along with their great jokes.

must have been a simultaneous discovery. i clearly remember being alone, taping that episode, seeing the eyes when it was aired, and knowing right away that there was something there, then freeze-framing it immediately afterward. I also remember showing it off to someone afterward, but i guess it wasn't you.

you've co-opted my memories!

do you remember eating pasta fagiole with your family afterwards?

this whole discussion baffles me. i have never laughed out loud at a simpsons episode that didn't involve skinner and the superintendent, and fail to even comprehend how y'all spent so much time analyzing what is at its core a heart-warming family drama with sappy baby moments, rampant pat life lessons and broad gender and class stereotypes. maybe i was having sex or discovering drugs or something. but this post's thread is mere proof to me that television rots your brain.

Seriously, CrazyMonk/Anthony, you ought to email the Simpsons guys. They were trying to find the person who got it right online and they never were able to. They wanted to give them something, maybe you can win a cool Simpsons prize.

22) no, but i remember eating pasta fagiole off of your mother's plate, as i've co-opted your food, too.

23) oh, *now* you realize that we're all big dorks? Welcome to the party, einstein!

24) what the hell? I got it too! Oh, by the way, guess how many people probably say that now...

how proud you must be that this one of the longest threads ever on this blog

Jon, I imagine you were also at woodstock and you saw WIlt score 100 points : )

Bad TV may rot your brain, but I love great TV (Deadwood, The Wire, AR). Besides, TV helps me pay for things though jobs.

24) and 25) well, I bet they have some identifying features. maybe an email address?

Yeah, I'd imagine they still know the name and/or the email address. Send them an email, why not? Could be cool.

My address at that time was Anthony75@aol.com. Do you remember what yours was Marco? And where should we send this to?

Sadly they don't give out their email addresses on the DVD, but you should listen to the commentary tracks of Who Shot Mr. Burns and figure out who was discussing it, and then send it to him through Fox. I guess.

Will do.

mine may've been marcosal@aol.com, but i don't really remember.

btw, terming yourself "flea" is a lot like trying to remake psycho. someone's already done it, and they're a lot better at it than you.

she had one post in this thread. are you just striking out randomly now or something? did theo epstein's return mess with your head or something?

just sayin'.

just sayin'. i find it laughable that someone would say "maybe i was discovering drugs or something," in the same sentence as "TV rots your brain."

shit; two separate sentences. my bad!

those sentences were supposed to be facetious, j. like jon, i am shocked, shocked! that you would lash out at my lack of creativity. you're just bitter because i called the simpsons inherently conservative and boring while it was meaningful to your adolescent development.
and i had another name way back (blowface), but nobody knew it was me, so i needed a rhyme. i could've been glea, i guess, or blea? but i've already changed horses in midstream once.
p.s. red sox suck.

also, why is a rock guitarist's name preclusive to blog posting use? are you insinuating the real flea has left witty comments here? was he naked?

1. i didn't know it was you. hence my snideness.

2. flea is primarily a bassist. while the bass is technically the "bass guitar," and while he is also an extremely proficient guitarist, i take it as an affront to all bassists that you would gloss over the fact that the man is a revolutionary in his particular field.

3. arguing on the internet is a lot like going to law school: it's long, frustrating, and nobody likes you when it's over.

3a. lest i get bitchslapped again, let's say that was mostly focused at brian.

4. the red sox, do not, in fact, suck.

To jbg: Nobody like me BEFORE I went to law school.

To jbg: Nobody liked me BEFORE I went to law school.

touche.

so futurama is comming back for 13 more episodes on comedy central in "08"

rock on!!!